I wish you had one of those boxes that allows you to put smileys in the comments. If you did, the appropriate one for use in this situation is the one commonly labeled as ::rolleyes::

Dobson's been a whack job for a long time. Not that many right-thinking individuals pay attention to him anymore.

I have to say though, I fail to see what's so objectionable about the last quote you provide. I mean, the guy is just saying what every other preacher in america has said: we should be moral if we want to continue to prosper. Aside from the abortion bit, which I know you and I disagree on, do you really think that profanity and immorality STRENGTHEN a nation? Really?

Except he's not saying that profanity and immorality weaken our nation, CH. He's saying his GOD will punish us for profanity and immorality. And while he's doing it, he's hate mongering and stirring up homophobia. Big difference. That's not to say other preachers all over aren't doing the same thing.

In my opinion, most of the people who vote to ban gay marriage are doing so for fear of divine retribution otherwise, which is one of the most ridiculous and juvenile (and incredibly depressing) things I've ever heard of, but nonetheless probably true.

Seriously, to all the people who need a Daddy up in the sky to reward them for being good, and punish them if they're bad: grow the fuck up.

Sorry. Profane!

This topic gets my rage going.

Yours,
Former Altar Boy

So Dobson says God will punish us. Fine, but the fact remains that most people would agree with the basic tenet of THAT statement: that profanity and immorality weaken a nation - whether it's God punishing a nation or some sort of great social change that happens independent of any sort of divine intervention.

Believe me, I'm no great lover of James Dobson (my parents are big followers of his, and as such made my adolescence a living hell), but I don't think he's far off base in the premise of his last statement: profanity and immorality lead to decline.

One last thing: please don't resort to personal attacks on people. Not everyone believes the things you do. I personally believe in a divine being, or "Daddy up in the sky", but I don't deign to pass moral judgement on those who don't. I certainly don't tell them to "grow the fuck up".

Rage from the left is just as bad as rage from the right. Until we all speak like civilized adults, rage is going to continue, and that does nothing but make everyone weaker. I would suggest that, just like your mom probably taught you: "don't stoop to their level".

Have a blessed day.

I feel sorry for these hatemongers who use ancient, unverifiable, unproven heresay (aka the bible) to selectively divide and discriminate. I feel even worse for people who believe their words and use them to calibrate their own " moral compasses". Peoples inabilty to think for themselves, use rationale and logic and isolate obvious "hate speech" amazes me over and over again.

Personally, I am flattered that my "lifestyle" affects so many people I don't even know. Maybe oneday I'll head to Kansas and visit them in their trailer-home churches and deliver a sermon on hipocracy and unconditional love.

I don't agree with the basic premise, actually. Irrespective of that, it then comes down to who gets to decide what's immoral or profane, CH, and therein lies my problem with Christians (or anyone) who would deign to decide for me. And then when they take it a step further, and try to make it the law of the land that I am LESS THAN, I have even more of a problem.

And I think I already apologized for the attack. I admit to a rage against the religion under which I was raised. I say "under" because I believe it was oppressive and brainwashing, and it robbed me of a lot of years I spent feeling, oh, doomed to hell. "Grow the fuck up" was not the appropriate way to express it, but I stand by the sentiment. I get tired of religious beliefs being OFF LIMITS from criticism. It I think it's lazy thinking, I have the right to say it (albeit, more politely in the future....I hope).

PS? How did I pass moral judgement on anyone? Far from it. OK, yeah, maybe intellectual judgement.

The issue here is, who gets final say on what's moral and what's not? Personally, I find Dobson's hate-mongering homophobia pro-life ranting to be in complete opposition to my moral code.

Like Michael said, don't decide for me. As long as I stick to the shared moral code of humanity (do not kill, do not steal, etc.) I think I'm doing just fine.

But seriously, I honestly don't understand how use of the word FUCK contributes to the decline of a nation.

The fact that the media is even giving a whack job like Dobson any attention is ridiculous, like Charlie said. And we're just feeding the machine by talking about it here, aren't we?

All I know that is I cannot take another election that's going to come down to Us versus Them - the Godlike versus the Godless. I simply don't have the strength.

"The fact that the media is even giving a whack job like Dobson any attention is ridiculous, like Charlie said."

It goes back to this unwarranted elevated status that we give to religious belief. It's another example of the way religion is dictating our behavior. Baseless faith is somehow something to be admired and respected (see: Thomas, Doubting).

And I do respect anyone's right to believe for themselves whatever they choose. But it doesn't end there. It never ends there. Those beliefs must be imposed on everyone else. Isn't it the ultimate irony when these people claim that this country's roots are in Christian values, when the whole damn thing started in order to ESCAPE governmentally institutionalized religion?

Don't bring THAT up -- it makes the Christians crazy. ;)

CR...see what you started. What I see as good Judeo-Christian tradition and morality (and Jesus said not a word about sexuality, but an awful lot about money), others view as oppressive, hence bad. I believe there is good and bad, based on my Christianity. I can't accept the relativism so prevelent today. But that's just me.

But who's asking you to accept it, Doc? You hold your beliefs, and I'll hold mine. I also believe there is good and bad. What I find oppressive is someone else deciding that for me.

And while I might question that anyone really knows what Jesus said, considering all the conflicts in the gospels and that they were written long after he was dead, I agree he's not quoted as saying anything about sexuality. Back to the irony, he DID supposedly have a lot to say about judging others. Oh, and about rich men entering his kingdom. How about we check out Dobson's bottom line? Pat Robertson's?

Ok, y'all. That's it. We believe or we don't. Dobson is polarizing, I think we all agree. Can we just leave it at that or do I have to close the comments?

Bitch please.

I enjoy a healthy debate, but I prefer it when everyone is falling all over themselves to AGREE.

Jeesh...this kind of "debate" never happens on FG's blog.

Are you high? I've had people on my blog nearly come to blows. I mean, as close as you can come to blows when it's all online.

This debate feels downright civilized compared to some of the shit I've had to endure.

I guess this discussion isn't what you had in mind when you made this post, but part of the fun of blogging is seeing how different people react to different things.

Well, as you may know...I'm not big on "different things" when it's not something I directly control or incite. Bwahahahahahaha...and GO